We know starting over or starting something new is necessary, even when it’s not always easy. That’s why we need real friends, real conversations and real awareness of when it’s time to move.
In this 4th episode, the MC’s explore how imposter syndrome has shown up, why having your crew close is necessary and how to recognize when new beginnings are banging on the door.
“Things” to Think About From This Episode:
For full transcript, go here: https://tinyurl.com/ATTEp4
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Show Music: “Mojo” by Noise Cake
Mel: Welcome back in to all The Things with The Magical Cartographers and we are going to continue the conversation about new beginnings and what can come once we take the plunge or jump off the cliff, ready for something new. Ready for you 2.0.
Ish: KJ I want you, because you're a therapist and I think you see this and deal with this so much, this, not good enough. And we're all being transparent here, I mean I'm a physician. So I have a lot of confidence, but in this journey as a coach, as a soul scape strategist, I deal with this inner turmoil. Am I good enough to do this? Who am I to do that? Like, all of that comes into play and really trying to figure out why do I feel this way? Why is this coming into play? Which stops us from taking that step for that new beginning sometimes and whatever that looks like.
So, I want you to weigh in on that because I think that you deal with that every day with your clients and even within yourself, Hmm.
Mel: Yeah. Who came up with this bullshit imposter syndrome and how can we smack that person in the face?
Jocelyn: Take it back, take it back. We want a refund.
KJ: I don't want it, I don't want it anymore. I'm actually prepping to release for my, solo podcast, a discussion that I had with a fellow artist about imposter syndrome and we were coming at it from a place of being artists, but we also acknowledged that it's not contained to one say discipline or career or walk of life, that it is a universal.
So like you all had said, I feel very confident in my abilities to be a therapist, most days. But there are days when I'm just like, who am I to be giving this kind of advice when I am a fucking mess behind the scenes, right? five minutes before turning on the zoom camera to meet with a client, I am in the corner, weeping from the mess that has been my day or from some terrible news.
And so it circles back to how is it that we can be okay with, whether it's a redefinition or a re, at the Re again, the revisit, a reassessment of why we believe something in the first place. that comes down to deep conditioning. Conditioning from the very minute that we enter this world and it's something that I would love, and I know we're going to continue talking about for a long time, especially in this group.
I wanted to mention an exchange that Mel and I had today around the concept of wealth. She and I were texting and we were just saying, Hey, congratulations. launch is feeling so amazing. Yay. And I said something like, we are abundant. We are brilliant. We are wealthy and brilliant, abundant, wealthy Mel texts back to me, she's like, I can, co-sign on just about everything but wealthy.
I was in a meeting, so unfortunately I couldn't write back right away. I would've Voxered or I would've called and been like girl. But when I did get to it, I wrote her back and I said, oh, wealth in friendship, wealth in creativity, wealth in brilliance. Are you kidding? Wealth in love.
And she finally wrote back and said, all right, I can co-sign on that. And so it's almost like we do need this mirror in this discussion of wait a second, what your definition of wealth, that's pretty antiquated. That might not be what really is like Jocelyn said, is that what matters in all of this? Can we say that we're wealthy in joy? Can we say that we're wealthy in kindness and ideas, absolutely.
Mel: And friendship.
KJ: And friendship. The fact that we're embarking on this new journey, this restart together as this group. Oh my god.
Mel: This is the perfect example. Us, the Magical Cartographers having conversations beyond ourselves, which, I mean, our amazing alone, if you guys were only with us, when the cameras, when the sound isn't being recorded, it's pretty hilarious,
KJ: Wait for the outtakes friends wait for the outtakes.
Mel: If you're really going to start something new, again, if I'm making this distinction between, starting over and starting a new version, the 2.0 version I guess of yourself, it's so vital to have people, to have your people around you like we spoke about before, to not only hold you accountable, but that accountability also shines that light on your magic and being able to say, I hear what you said, but here's the reality here is who you are, what your magic is, what you have an abundance of wealth in.
You need people to be able to say that to you when you are not recognizing it for yourself because when you start something new and that imposter syndrome kicks in, you can't hear that.
Your mind isn't prepared to do all this new shit and also still hype you up, right? When all the words that are coming to you are the not nice, ugly words that want to bring you down.
Ish: We need to stop honoring this whole concept of pulling ourselves up by our imaginary bootstraps. And we all know how we feel about that. Cause that's just, yes, we need to stop doing that. We need the community and you need to surround yourself with a community of people who support you. It doesn't have to be everybody in the world.
Mel: And it's not going to be everybody in the world. I want to make that clear too, that everybody is not your friend. Everybody is not going to support you. And you probably have friends who are not the people that are going to support you in everything, and that's okay. That's okay. That's why you need more than one.
Unless they're a Magical Cartographer, then you just need us as a collection as a collective.
Jocelyn: You definitely need us.
Mel: But Ish I mean, that leads me back to you and this work as a soul scape strategist, which I just love hearing and saying, but you've spent a career as a physician. What would be considered, very traditional and linear, I guess, is a word that comes to mind. And then all of a sudden here comes the woo. And so, you know, supposedly, again, as people think about this work, that you're delving into, even though obviously that's a part of who you have always been, whether you knew it or acknowledged it before, but now delving into this new world. How has that felt for you as the new beginning?
Ish: So, interestingly enough, it seems like they're detached, but they're not. So, I didn't actually want to be a doctor. I wanted to be a lawyer and, I'll leave that story about, really that's a whole different story about why I became a doctor, but when I made that decision, and people will understand, they make decisions for all sorts of reasons. They enter into things.
In order for me to survive as being a doctor, I had to find what was right for me and what that ended up being was teaching. And so my career has been, teaching students and teaching internal medicine residents.
And so in a lot of ways, I have worked on that soul scape with folks. And so it's not a new beginning in the sense that I'm not completely leaving the core and
I'm not really leaving medicine because there's a lot about medicine I love. I'm a teacher at heart. So, this is an addition and I think that was something that I have struggled with in the last couple of years. Do I leave being a physician and, going down this road and, you guys have all seen this, like I struggled back and forth. Do I leave? Do I not leave? I'm not ready to leave the physician world, but I am ready to help people make their own maps in a different way than I do as a physician as a teacher.
So sometimes, new beginnings are figuring out how you bring your talents and your interest in the world and, and make those small changes. So it doesn't have to be these big, scary, let me leave everything. And in KJ too, I think you've done this too. Like you really haven't left being a therapist. You've just left a situation that at the end of the day, didn't align with you anymore.
And I think that that's the big thing is that when things don't align, can you add something? Do you have to change something or do you have to leave something? And that takes time to figure out, I think, and again, that decision to, even if you end something and leave something, you can go back to it.
Ish: You can return it. Like, I mean, KJ you might not want to return to the job that you were at, but you could return to your company. Right. And we know, we all know people who've done this, where they have entered into the entrepreneur world, and they've done phenomenally well. And then they have said, meh, this is not me right now. And then they've returned to corporate world and they're super happy, And so you can make that decision and then come back to something.
KJ: Absolutely. Yeah.
Mel: Yeah. And I think too, for Jocelyn, the folks, the writers that you work with, I think would attest to that, that you can start one chapter… ha ha ha, you can start one chapter and decide, no, I don't have anything else to say over there.
Jocelyn: Nope. I'm done. I don't need to do that.
Mel: Maybe I'll come back or maybe I won't.
Jocelyn: Yeah. and you can do it with an entire book. You can do it with multiple books. I think, and maybe that's one of the major keys to all of this, of starting over is recognizing that it's okay for things to end.
It's really okay to say goodbye to something, whatever that is, whether that's a dream, a passion, a lover, a whatever, being able to say goodbye for whatever reasons, and then be able to keep going forward and keep evolving and keep growing.
And if you go back, there's been evolution. And like Ish said, KJ, you're probably not going to go back to that job, and that also doesn't mean that when you say goodbye to something, you're shutting the door on everything about it.
There's things that were probably wonderful in all of our lives that we've said goodbye to relationships, jobs, whatever. We don't have to shut the door and be done with it in a way or vilify it for what it was. We can keep moving forward into something new.
Mel: Yeah, yeah. Shutting the door versus burning the bridge.
Jocelyn: And we can do that too, but
Mel: There are plenty of bridges that need burning don't get me wrong, but
Ish: Burned bridges can be recreated
Jocelyn: Yeah another bridge can be built.
KJ: Better bridges yeah, better bridges built.
Mel: Better bridge, build better bridges.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that going back to that original thought of self care, Is that pause in that acknowledgement that it's okay to walk away.
Mel: Yeah. Yeah. We'll definitely have to have another conversation around, that self care, that we talked about many, many months ago.
I kind of wanted to just go around, and ask how do you know, when do you know either individually or hypothetically, when do you know when it's time to not exit, right, we've exited. When do you know that it's time to start something new or to start something over again?
Mel: And this time I'm going to start with KJ. Cause she's like, yes, yes. I hear, I hear that. You need to know,
KJ: Well, for me, it's when, I can count on one hand how many times this has actually happened when I've actually reached that point, that threshold of tolerance. but it's when I discovered that I physically and literally could not move anymore.
It usually looks like me, I referenced it a minute or two ago, it physically usually looks like me balled up, like, in a fetal position and that I know and recognize is my last, getting emotional again... my last resort of surviving for protection. I cave in on myself physically so that I can preserve what's left. Yeah. And I'll physically feel it in my body. I'll physically be crying. And it's usually when my body's just like girlfriend, there is no more left. What is left now is this physical shell to protect it for all it's worth. And so that often looks like, and I've said it to you girls before I'll use the word cocoon.
I'll often just move inward, build up my armor and I take that time to regenerate, replenish, breathe. And, like I said, I could probably say that I've done that physically, maybe to that place where it's just like, Nope, no, it's just a handful of times and it was pretty recent, the most recent was very recent.
So for me, it's my body literally says you've got to cocoon, you've got to protect yourself because there's nothing left. If no one else is going to protect it, if everyone's going to keep taking something has to be the last line of defense and that's you, my friend. That's you girl.
Mel: Yeah. And then, I'm going to pop over to you Ish to say, either from that experience of, okay, this is how I know it's time to move on. Or from a perspective of this, is how I know that this new thing that I'm ready for this new piece, either side of that.
Ish: Yeah. So I'm just sending love to my girl KJ here. So just holding you. So that's you know, my heart.
For me. So I want to say I see this a lot. Like we get to, it's burnout, complete burnout. It's so prevalent before people make the move for a new beginning. And I think part of our work here, all of us want to do in our own ways is to not have people get to that point where you have to be in the cocoon to protect yourself. But I see it so often.
But for me, when I'm really listening to myself, it's that whole thing of, I'm missing something. I don't feel whole, I don't feel complete. I don't always listen to it. So then you go down that pathway of maybe getting to that cocoon point, but if you're really listening to your own cues, for me, it's just like that. Yeah. It's just that. The puzzle pieces are not all fitting together or the pie is not whole, however, the imagery you want to do. And that's how I know that I have to make a change, which is really a new beginning, And it could be subtle or it could be major, but that's how I sort of knew, I have to make this pivot because I felt really called to, that I needed to do some work beyond the healing that I do as a physician.
And sometimes people will look at you and say like, “Well, is this is not enough? Why is being a physician not enough?”
That's because we're all our own person. What may be enough for somebody else may not be enough for who we are and that's okay, and that just means you've got something else to give in this world.
I don't know why we've had this. I feel like between Mel, you and KJ, and me and Jocelyn, we've had this, some sort of conversation about the end of the road, cause I think we're all like, I'm entering like this year I will be 50, and you do start thinking about your legacy, what you leave. And I do think about, I want to leave, I wanna leave something that impacts people in a positive way. And I've done that. I have. But there's more that I could do. Yeah. And so that's what's missing. And so that's why there is this slight shift in the way that I am, thinking about things.
Mel: Yeah. Jocelyn, what you got for us girl?
Jocelyn: When you first asked, how do you know to start over? My thought was, well, I don't. And I thought, I don't know when it's time to start over so much as I feel in my gut it's like, gotta go, gotta move. Gotta go. Gotta go. Okay. Go.
And what I'm thinking about very directly in this is this group, this collaboration. I had collaborated on a lot of things earlier in my twenties and my thirties that, burn bridges, you know, that I didn't maybe exit so gracefully. But I've been avoiding collaboration for years.
Somebody will say, Hey, we should. No, we shouldn't.
What if we did?
No, we shouldn't. No, let's not go do anything.
Mel: Let me get back to you on that.
KJ: Let me check my schedule.
Jocelyn: But when we started talking with this group, I didn't know, and I don't know where it's going. But I knew when we started talking that I didn't want to let it go by. I didn't want to watch it go by on the freeway and be left behind going, oh, where did it go?
Mel: Hey guys wait I'm ready now
Jocelyn: Wait for me. Running down the road. So I think starting over part of it is just that willingness that when you do feel that gotta go, gotta move, gotta jump, you're willing to fling yourself out into space and see what happens and see how the universe catches you. Sometimes you may land in that shit pile we were talking about with KJ and then it's, okay, so this is where I am, now how do I get out? And the acknowledgement that nothing is forever. you can always find a way out, you can always find a new door to go through. There's always a new beginning.
Mel: I love it. Oh my gosh. You guys are amazing.
I will just say that for myself. Yeah. I mean, a little bit of what each of you has shared, I have experienced and the highs and the lows of all of those things. For me, when it comes to new beginnings, usually my new beginnings come from a space of, this doesn't already exist, and so I guess I gotta make it.
I don't see somebody talking about these things. I mean, this again, I'll refer back to this group. I couldn't find a space where I could just have really real conversations with a diverse group of women that could be honest and open and share of themselves, and be willing to share that with other people. I didn't see that anywhere meaningful, and so I felt like I had to find a way to create it. Hence me wrangling everyone, like, Hey, you guys want to come do this thing?
So for me, that's the new beginning. I can't anticipate it, but it comes from a passion, right? When there's something that I feel really passionate about, that I can't find collaboration, or I can't find it doesn't exist somewhere, I feel this mandate from the universe, well, that's because you're supposed to do it.
And I can honestly say I didn't always heed that call. I didn't recognize that for myself, for the majority of my life I'm sure I'm not alone in that. But now I recognize it and now I recognize it as not just a gift, but really when people talk about callings, that new beginning, that thing you start because you can't not start it, that's your gift, That's the magic. Yeah. and that's why we're here.
So as always, oh my gosh. This whole idea of beginnings, whether they're starting over again, whether they're new beginnings. The fact that we know they're necessary, the fact that we can acknowledge that they're not always easy. They certainly are not easy just before they begin, but they're going to happen. They're going to happen, for better, for worse. So the best thing to do is find your people and, hunker down with them, right. Make sure that they're there with wine or tea, if you don't drink or, tissues
KJ: Kombucha, and tissues
Mel: And tissues. Right. And, just do it.
Don't let yourself not move, because your magic is waiting for you. And we all need to see it. We all need to see it.
So, thank you so much to you ladies today for being very open and honest and real and trying to get me to cry, it didn't work. It didn't work. I will do it in my own private time.
KJ: Oh, it's coming.
Mel: But thank you so much for being really honest. And, I know everyone listening definitely could resonate with all the things that we had to say today.
So I can't wait for our next conversation, ladies. I love you all. We love everyone who's listening and
Stay ready for All The Things.